Subj: [talk-kitchen] Re: [ncte-talk] Honors Students
Date: 4/5/00 1:52:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: mrsmyth@prolog.net (MrsMyth)
Sender: owner-talk-kitchen@ncte.org
Reply-to: talk-kitchen@serv1.ncte.org
To: ncte-talk@serv1.ncte.org
Ted-
I understand that many people have been successful in what you suggest. My
school board rejected my 1/2 year sabbatical proposal to create a website
for and by the students as "not a valid pursuit." So...I took a full year
at half pay, am taking classes, and trying to work on the website thing on
my own. I don't want to give up, but there's not enough space on the list
to note all the roadblocks my school can put up. I want to be able to
devote -some- time to my own children, too. I have and will keep fighting,
but please understand that in some districts, this often leads to putting up
the little sign that reads "Bang Head Here" and using it frequently.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: <tnellen@iris.host4u.net>
To: <ncte-talk@serv1.ncte.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [ncte-talk] Honors Students
> Sharon,
>
> hear you loud and clear. Understood this many years ago as I figured out
> how to get my 34 students in 5 classes into a computer room of only 16
> computers. split the class in half and such. But basically, knowing that
> reality isn't real only an illusion, i figured it out in spite of all
> odds. It is possible because it has to be done. do give it a go in those
> labs, force the issue, make noise and do it for the sake of the kids.
> accepting what we think is real just has to be questioned.
>
> I hear what you and teresa and many others are saying and I hope you hear
> me when I say it is possible and can be done. the it of course is getting
> the heterogeneous class into a computer lab. ain't that dificult really,
> if we are talking about reality.
>
> There are others on ths list who can attest to that.
>
> TedNellen
>
> On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, MrsMyth wrote:
>
> > Theresa- IMHO, the key sentence in your post - at least from my
> > perspective-is "...all kids can achieve but in reality not all kids
achieve
> > at the same pace..." I would agree with that. As with you, my
experience
> > is with classes in which some students are high IQ, others not. I see
the
> > frustration on everybody's faces when I try to be twenty different
people
> > and teach to them all. 31 students in a room may be barbaric (as I have
> > been told before) but that IS my reality. There is also a second
teacher's
> > materials in my room, including her desk, filing cabinets, bookcases,
etc.
> > I would love to do more with and for my students, but it isn't going to
> > happen any time soon with the logistics I've been given.
> >
> > Also, from a personal standpoint, I know that I felt major frustration
in
> > high school myself especially in math class because I was not able to
grasp
> > some concepts as quickly as others. We were seriously tracked in those
days
> > (I'm 'older than dirt' on a previous post) and as a college-bound
students,
> > I was required to take upper level math. 30+ years later I still feel
> > 'stupid' because I couldn't 'get it' when the others did. Maybe...if I
had
> > been in a 'lower' class, I would have met with some success. Just a
theory.
> >
> > Anyway, I wanted you to know that if you're going to go down in flames,
I'll
> > probably be with you.
> > Sharon
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Glenn <glenn@peedeeworld.net>
> > To: <ncte-talk@serv1.ncte.org>
> > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 7:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ncte-talk] Honors Students
> >
> >
> > > > The current criticism for not including all students in a single
> > classroom
> > > > is that the "low" kids will drag down the "high" kids and in some
way
> > > damage
> > > > their education. Does anyone else smell a rat in this logic?
> > >
> > >
> > > Nancy,
> > >
> > > I know that this is a hot topic in education at the moment, and I
don't
> > have
> > > anything other than my own non-scientific anecdotes to back up what I
am
> > > about to say, but I hope you'll be open-minded and hear my experience.
> > >
> > > I teach 8th grade. At my school, we have AIG clusters & regular
classes.
> > I
> > > teach 1 communication skills cluster class (there are about 10 AIG
> > > identified kids and about 16 non-AIG identified kids in the class; the
non
> > > AIG kids are high-performing and were recommended by their teachers
for
> > the
> > > cluster class); my other class is a regular class with kids whose IQs
> > range
> > > from 78 to above average. This setup works great for me-- I do many
of
> > the
> > > same activities in both classes, but in the regular class I slow
things
> > down
> > > a bit. I have tried teaching exactly the same way to both classes--
but
> > in
> > > my lower class the average reading level is 5.2 (with the notorious AR
> > STAR
> > > test), and I just CAN'T assign large chunks of reading to be done at
home
> > > (freeing up classtime for other activities related to the reading).
> > >
> > > In my regular class we read a little in class, discuss, do some
> > activities,
> > > read a little more, etc. I have to guide them more than the AIG kids
> > simply
> > > because they have deficits in reading & experience & work ethic. I'm
not
> > > saying that I treat them like they are stupid-- I have read _A Raisin
In
> > The
> > > Sun_, _Animal Farm_, _The Giver_, _A Christmas Carol_, _Spoon River
> > > Anthology_ and _Johnny Tremain_ with them since Thanksgiving (when I
> > started
> > > working at this school). I do NOT treat them like they are less able
to
> > > handle complex material-- but I DO guide them through the material
more.
> > >
> > > However, I also teach social studies. In those classes, I have
> > > heterogeneously grouped students. In one class I have a kid with a
152 IQ
> > > and a college reading level AND a kid with a 70 IQ who cannot read ANY
> > (and
> > > I mean *literally* ANY) words at all. It is not good for either
child--
> > the
> > > bright kid can't be exposed to half of what I'd like to show him
because
> > the
> > > other kid would be lost. I find myself teaching to the middle of the
> > class,
> > > which is, honestly, good for nobody. And I know it, but with 30 kids
in
> > > these classes-- 5-8 EC and 5-8 AIG, I'm not sure where in the world to
> > > begin.
> > >
> > > Case in point: we are doing the Civil War right now. We have been
over
> > the
> > > strengths/ weaknesses of the North and South and the states that were
part
> > > of both sides, oh, probably ten times now. The lower kids can't even
> > label
> > > a map of the US correctly-- they put North Carolina (my home state)
where
> > > Tennessee is, South Carolina NORTH of NC, and otherwise leave
everything
> > > blank but Texas and Florida, and sometimes Maine. The lower kids
OUGHT to
> > > learn where states are in relation to each other-- I think that's a
useful
> > > bit of knowledge that they should possess. But I could spend the next
> > three
> > > days going over it while the AIG kids pull their hair out from
> > frustration.
> > >
> > > I DO believe that all kids can achieve, but in reality not everyone
> > achieves
> > > at the same pace at the same stage of development. Grouping kids can
be a
> > > bad thing-- I'll grant you that: elitism and stereotypes don't help
> > anyone.
> > > But no one's needs are met when they are all lumped together.
> > >
> > > Teresa, having a feeling she may be very unpopular after this post
> > > West Middle School
> > > Montgomery County, NC
> > >
> > >