Subj: [talk-kitchen] Re: [ncte-talk] Honors Students

Date: 4/4/00 8:21:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time

From: ifdlh@imap2.asu.edu

Sender: owner-talk-kitchen@ncte.org

Reply-to: talk-kitchen@serv1.ncte.org

To: ncte-talk@serv1.ncte.org

 

Interesting, Nancy. At our school, entrance to Honors Freshman English is

based upon a writing sample, no standardized test. We review the writing

samples of all students who wish to be considered for Honors section. The

decision is based upon apparant mastery of basic writing skills and expression

of creative/insightful response to a short reading section. Then we reserve

the right to move students in or out of the honors section based upon their

needs as we have more contact with them.

 

There was a very interesting article in the New York Times last week (I've

forgotten which day butperhaps could track it down) about tracking at Menlo

Park High School. The school has a mix of students from high socio-economic

level familys from the Silicon Valley (if I'm remembering correctly) and

students "from the other side of the line" made by the highway - mostly

minorities. One science teacher began a mixed ability science class with the

intent to help out the minority kids who, of course, had the potential to

excel, but didn't have the advantages of the White kids. The high

socio-economic parents complained vociferously that placement in such a class

would deprive their students of a shot at such school as Stanford. The

article then cited information gleaned from interviews with minoity parents.

Not surprisingly, they were unable to attend many school informational

meetings because they worked two jobs; many did not understnad English well

enough to help their children; and the majority did NOT understand "the

system" which would allow them to challenge their child's placement.

 

I have very mixed feelings myself about honors classes. I teach honors

classes, but I very often find myself wondering how this division affects the

classes that my colleague, and listmember, Louise teaches. I do feel

concerned that her kids do not have the inspiration of enthusiastic role

models. At the same time, I distinctly remember a particular freshman class I

had two years ago, mixed ability, in which I had a very hard time engaging my

students were well skilled in reading and writing about literature while I

tried to give my less skilled students some basic skills to use. I know,

perhaps my problem is my overemphasis of "I" in all of this. Still, I tried

mixed group assignments, etc. Unfortunately, until we make a commitment to

smaller class sizes we will continue to have problems with mixed ability

classes.

 

A large part of the problems I see are not all that different from those at

Menlo Park. In addition to teaching "the curriculum" we have to teach our

students how to be non-judgemental mentors. One would think that at a so

called Christian school we would not have attitude problems. I think in many

ways we have worse problems. I certainly have students who have wonderful

approaches to life and will gladly share their expertise with students who are

not there yet. At the same time, I have many students who feel that just

because they attend a privcate school they are automatically better than those

who don't. These same students are the ones likely to roll their eyes or

display subtle but very real displeasure at being asked to work with a student

"not at their level." I am a bit of an outsider in some ways at my school

because I am not Catholic and my kids attend public schools in spite of being

allowed free tuition at my school. I try to use this postion to provide

first-hand perspective to my kids about how "the rest of the world" is not so

horrible as they think.

 

I'm rambling and digressing here, I'm afraid. My point, if I really have one,

is that there are a great number of underlying forces that we need to address

in order to make mixed ability classes work well. Perhaps my situation is

very different in the private sector. Nevertheless, I think smaller class

sizes, parent education, and combatting prejudice are necessary. (I know,

honors classes often feed the very prejudice I decry.) Everywhere I look, in

AZ at least, tracking exists to some degree in the high schools and is deeply

engrained. My former professor at ASU, Lynn Nelson, would say that we each

need to keep leaning on the wall and eventually it will move. Sometimes the

wall just seems so formidable I don't know where to place my shoulder to begin

pushing.

 

Cindy Hoffman

ifdlh@imap2.asu.edu

Seton Catholic High School

Chandler, AZ

 

On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, Nancy Patterson wrote:

 

> Ok. I've been awfully quiet lately.

>

> But...

>

> I continue to be troubled by classes designed for honor students, or classes

> designed for "low" students. We need to understand that students of varying

> abilities can have their needs met in the same classroom environment. When

> we sort students out like beans, we, first, often sort them by how

> teacher-pleaser-ish they are. And second, by how well they do on

> standardized tests--notoriously inaccurate measures.

>

> The current criticism for not including all students in a single classroom

> is that the "low" kids will drag down the "high" kids and in some way damage

> their education. Does anyone else smell a rat in this logic?

>

> Nancy

>

> Nancy G. Patterson

> Portland Middle School, English Dept. Chair

> Portland, Michigan

>

> "To educate as the practice of freedom is a way of teaching that anyone can

> learn.

> --bell hooks

>

> patter@voyager.net

> <http://www.msu.edu/user/patter90/opening.htm>

> <http://www.npatterson.net/mid.html>

>