Subj: [talk-kitchen] Re: [ncte-talk] Honors Students
Date: 4/4/00 8:21:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: ifdlh@imap2.asu.edu
Sender: owner-talk-kitchen@ncte.org
Reply-to: talk-kitchen@serv1.ncte.org
To: ncte-talk@serv1.ncte.org
Interesting, Nancy. At our school, entrance to Honors Freshman English is
based upon a writing sample, no standardized test. We review the writing
samples of all students who wish to be considered for Honors section. The
decision is based upon apparant mastery of basic writing skills and expression
of creative/insightful response to a short reading section. Then we reserve
the right to move students in or out of the honors section based upon their
needs as we have more contact with them.
There was a very interesting article in the New York Times last week (I've
forgotten which day butperhaps could track it down) about tracking at Menlo
Park High School. The school has a mix of students from high socio-economic
level familys from the Silicon Valley (if I'm remembering correctly) and
students "from the other side of the line" made by the highway - mostly
minorities. One science teacher began a mixed ability science class with the
intent to help out the minority kids who, of course, had the potential to
excel, but didn't have the advantages of the White kids. The high
socio-economic parents complained vociferously that placement in such a class
would deprive their students of a shot at such school as Stanford. The
article then cited information gleaned from interviews with minoity parents.
Not surprisingly, they were unable to attend many school informational
meetings because they worked two jobs; many did not understnad English well
enough to help their children; and the majority did NOT understand "the
system" which would allow them to challenge their child's placement.
I have very mixed feelings myself about honors classes. I teach honors
classes, but I very often find myself wondering how this division affects the
classes that my colleague, and listmember, Louise teaches. I do feel
concerned that her kids do not have the inspiration of enthusiastic role
models. At the same time, I distinctly remember a particular freshman class I
had two years ago, mixed ability, in which I had a very hard time engaging my
students were well skilled in reading and writing about literature while I
tried to give my less skilled students some basic skills to use. I know,
perhaps my problem is my overemphasis of "I" in all of this. Still, I tried
mixed group assignments, etc. Unfortunately, until we make a commitment to
smaller class sizes we will continue to have problems with mixed ability
classes.
A large part of the problems I see are not all that different from those at
Menlo Park. In addition to teaching "the curriculum" we have to teach our
students how to be non-judgemental mentors. One would think that at a so
called Christian school we would not have attitude problems. I think in many
ways we have worse problems. I certainly have students who have wonderful
approaches to life and will gladly share their expertise with students who are
not there yet. At the same time, I have many students who feel that just
because they attend a privcate school they are automatically better than those
who don't. These same students are the ones likely to roll their eyes or
display subtle but very real displeasure at being asked to work with a student
"not at their level." I am a bit of an outsider in some ways at my school
because I am not Catholic and my kids attend public schools in spite of being
allowed free tuition at my school. I try to use this postion to provide
first-hand perspective to my kids about how "the rest of the world" is not so
horrible as they think.
I'm rambling and digressing here, I'm afraid. My point, if I really have one,
is that there are a great number of underlying forces that we need to address
in order to make mixed ability classes work well. Perhaps my situation is
very different in the private sector. Nevertheless, I think smaller class
sizes, parent education, and combatting prejudice are necessary. (I know,
honors classes often feed the very prejudice I decry.) Everywhere I look, in
AZ at least, tracking exists to some degree in the high schools and is deeply
engrained. My former professor at ASU, Lynn Nelson, would say that we each
need to keep leaning on the wall and eventually it will move. Sometimes the
wall just seems so formidable I don't know where to place my shoulder to begin
pushing.
Cindy Hoffman
ifdlh@imap2.asu.edu
Seton Catholic High School
Chandler, AZ
On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, Nancy Patterson wrote:
> Ok. I've been awfully quiet lately.
>
> But...
>
> I continue to be troubled by classes designed for honor students, or classes
> designed for "low" students. We need to understand that students of varying
> abilities can have their needs met in the same classroom environment. When
> we sort students out like beans, we, first, often sort them by how
> teacher-pleaser-ish they are. And second, by how well they do on
> standardized tests--notoriously inaccurate measures.
>
> The current criticism for not including all students in a single classroom
> is that the "low" kids will drag down the "high" kids and in some way damage
> their education. Does anyone else smell a rat in this logic?
>
> Nancy
>
> Nancy G. Patterson
> Portland Middle School, English Dept. Chair
> Portland, Michigan
>
> "To educate as the practice of freedom is a way of teaching that anyone can
> learn.
> --bell hooks
>
> patter@voyager.net
> <http://www.msu.edu/user/patter90/opening.htm>
> <http://www.npatterson.net/mid.html>
>