Subj: [talk-kitchen] Re: [ncte-talk] Honors Students

Date: 4/4/00 10:22:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time

From: mrsmyth@prolog.net (MrsMyth)

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Theresa- IMHO, the key sentence in your post - at least from my

perspective-is "...all kids can achieve but in reality not all kids achieve

at the same pace..." I would agree with that. As with you, my experience

is with classes in which some students are high IQ, others not. I see the

frustration on everybody's faces when I try to be twenty different people

and teach to them all. 31 students in a room may be barbaric (as I have

been told before) but that IS my reality. There is also a second teacher's

materials in my room, including her desk, filing cabinets, bookcases, etc.

I would love to do more with and for my students, but it isn't going to

happen any time soon with the logistics I've been given.

Also, from a personal standpoint, I know that I felt major frustration in

high school myself especially in math class because I was not able to grasp

some concepts as quickly as others. We were seriously tracked in those days

(I'm 'older than dirt' on a previous post) and as a college-bound students,

I was required to take upper level math. 30+ years later I still feel

'stupid' because I couldn't 'get it' when the others did. Maybe...if I had

been in a 'lower' class, I would have met with some success. Just a theory.

Anyway, I wanted you to know that if you're going to go down in flames, I'll

probably be with you.

Sharon

----- Original Message -----

From: Glenn <glenn@peedeeworld.net>

To: <ncte-talk@serv1.ncte.org>

Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 7:45 PM

Subject: Re: [ncte-talk] Honors Students

> > The current criticism for not including all students in a single

classroom

> > is that the "low" kids will drag down the "high" kids and in some way

> damage

> > their education. Does anyone else smell a rat in this logic?

> Nancy,

> I know that this is a hot topic in education at the moment, and I don't

have

> anything other than my own non-scientific anecdotes to back up what I am

> about to say, but I hope you'll be open-minded and hear my experience.

> I teach 8th grade. At my school, we have AIG clusters & regular classes.

> teach 1 communication skills cluster class (there are about 10 AIG

> identified kids and about 16 non-AIG identified kids in the class; the non

> AIG kids are high-performing and were recommended by their teachers for

the

> cluster class); my other class is a regular class with kids whose IQs

range

> from 78 to above average. This setup works great for me-- I do many of

the

> same activities in both classes, but in the regular class I slow things

down

> a bit. I have tried teaching exactly the same way to both classes-- but

> my lower class the average reading level is 5.2 (with the notorious AR

STAR

> test), and I just CAN'T assign large chunks of reading to be done at home

> (freeing up classtime for other activities related to the reading).

> In my regular class we read a little in class, discuss, do some

activities,

> read a little more, etc. I have to guide them more than the AIG kids

simply

> because they have deficits in reading & experience & work ethic. I'm not

> saying that I treat them like they are stupid-- I have read _A Raisin In

The

> Sun_, _Animal Farm_, _The Giver_, _A Christmas Carol_, _Spoon River

> Anthology_ and _Johnny Tremain_ with them since Thanksgiving (when I

started

> working at this school). I do NOT treat them like they are less able to

> handle complex material-- but I DO guide them through the material more.

> However, I also teach social studies. In those classes, I have

> heterogeneously grouped students. In one class I have a kid with a 152 IQ

> and a college reading level AND a kid with a 70 IQ who cannot read ANY

(and

> I mean *literally* ANY) words at all. It is not good for either child--

the

> bright kid can't be exposed to half of what I'd like to show him because

the

> other kid would be lost. I find myself teaching to the middle of the

class,

> which is, honestly, good for nobody. And I know it, but with 30 kids in

> these classes-- 5-8 EC and 5-8 AIG, I'm not sure where in the world to

> begin.

> Case in point: we are doing the Civil War right now. We have been over

the

> strengths/ weaknesses of the North and South and the states that were part

> of both sides, oh, probably ten times now. The lower kids can't even

label

> a map of the US correctly-- they put North Carolina (my home state) where

> Tennessee is, South Carolina NORTH of NC, and otherwise leave everything

> blank but Texas and Florida, and sometimes Maine. The lower kids OUGHT to

> learn where states are in relation to each other-- I think that's a useful

> bit of knowledge that they should possess. But I could spend the next

three

> days going over it while the AIG kids pull their hair out from

frustration.

> I DO believe that all kids can achieve, but in reality not everyone

achieves

> at the same pace at the same stage of development. Grouping kids can be a

> bad thing-- I'll grant you that: elitism and stereotypes don't help

anyone.

> But no one's needs are met when they are all lumped together.

> Teresa, having a feeling she may be very unpopular after this post

> West Middle School

> Montgomery County, NC

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Message-ID: <001901bf9e3e$1909d920$660a0a0a@sharonl>

From: "MrsMyth" <mrsmyth@prolog.net>

To: <ncte-talk@serv1.ncte.org>

References: <2.2.32.20000403134353.05049158@pop.voyager.net> <010701bf9dc6$a527d600$6466a3d8@computer>

Subject: [talk-kitchen] Re: [ncte-talk] Honors Students

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:00:12 -0400

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