Subj: [talk-kitchen] Re: [ncte-talk] Honors Students
Date: 4/4/00 3:38:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: tnellen@iris.host4u.net
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Sharon,
hear you loud and clear. Understood this many years ago as I figured out
how to get my 34 students in 5 classes into a computer room of only 16
computers. split the class in half and such. But basically, knowing that
reality isn't real only an illusion, i figured it out in spite of all
odds. It is possible because it has to be done. do give it a go in those
labs, force the issue, make noise and do it for the sake of the kids.
accepting what we think is real just has to be questioned.
I hear what you and teresa and many others are saying and I hope you hear
me when I say it is possible and can be done. the it of course is getting
the heterogeneous class into a computer lab. ain't that dificult really,
if we are talking about reality.
There are others on ths list who can attest to that.
TedNellen
On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, MrsMyth wrote:
> Theresa- IMHO, the key sentence in your post - at least from my
> perspective-is "...all kids can achieve but in reality not all kids achieve
> at the same pace..." I would agree with that. As with you, my experience
> is with classes in which some students are high IQ, others not. I see the
> frustration on everybody's faces when I try to be twenty different people
> and teach to them all. 31 students in a room may be barbaric (as I have
> been told before) but that IS my reality. There is also a second teacher's
> materials in my room, including her desk, filing cabinets, bookcases, etc.
> I would love to do more with and for my students, but it isn't going to
> happen any time soon with the logistics I've been given.
>
> Also, from a personal standpoint, I know that I felt major frustration in
> high school myself especially in math class because I was not able to grasp
> some concepts as quickly as others. We were seriously tracked in those days
> (I'm 'older than dirt' on a previous post) and as a college-bound students,
> I was required to take upper level math. 30+ years later I still feel
> 'stupid' because I couldn't 'get it' when the others did. Maybe...if I had
> been in a 'lower' class, I would have met with some success. Just a theory.
>
> Anyway, I wanted you to know that if you're going to go down in flames, I'll
> probably be with you.
> Sharon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Glenn <glenn@peedeeworld.net>
> To: <ncte-talk@serv1.ncte.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [ncte-talk] Honors Students
>
>
> > > The current criticism for not including all students in a single
> classroom
> > > is that the "low" kids will drag down the "high" kids and in some way
> > damage
> > > their education. Does anyone else smell a rat in this logic?
> >
> >
> > Nancy,
> >
> > I know that this is a hot topic in education at the moment, and I don't
> have
> > anything other than my own non-scientific anecdotes to back up what I am
> > about to say, but I hope you'll be open-minded and hear my experience.
> >
> > I teach 8th grade. At my school, we have AIG clusters & regular classes.
> I
> > teach 1 communication skills cluster class (there are about 10 AIG
> > identified kids and about 16 non-AIG identified kids in the class; the non
> > AIG kids are high-performing and were recommended by their teachers for
> the
> > cluster class); my other class is a regular class with kids whose IQs
> range
> > from 78 to above average. This setup works great for me-- I do many of
> the
> > same activities in both classes, but in the regular class I slow things
> down
> > a bit. I have tried teaching exactly the same way to both classes-- but
> in
> > my lower class the average reading level is 5.2 (with the notorious AR
> STAR
> > test), and I just CAN'T assign large chunks of reading to be done at home
> > (freeing up classtime for other activities related to the reading).
> >
> > In my regular class we read a little in class, discuss, do some
> activities,
> > read a little more, etc. I have to guide them more than the AIG kids
> simply
> > because they have deficits in reading & experience & work ethic. I'm not
> > saying that I treat them like they are stupid-- I have read _A Raisin In
> The
> > Sun_, _Animal Farm_, _The Giver_, _A Christmas Carol_, _Spoon River
> > Anthology_ and _Johnny Tremain_ with them since Thanksgiving (when I
> started
> > working at this school). I do NOT treat them like they are less able to
> > handle complex material-- but I DO guide them through the material more.
> >
> > However, I also teach social studies. In those classes, I have
> > heterogeneously grouped students. In one class I have a kid with a 152 IQ
> > and a college reading level AND a kid with a 70 IQ who cannot read ANY
> (and
> > I mean *literally* ANY) words at all. It is not good for either child--
> the
> > bright kid can't be exposed to half of what I'd like to show him because
> the
> > other kid would be lost. I find myself teaching to the middle of the
> class,
> > which is, honestly, good for nobody. And I know it, but with 30 kids in
> > these classes-- 5-8 EC and 5-8 AIG, I'm not sure where in the world to
> > begin.
> >
> > Case in point: we are doing the Civil War right now. We have been over
> the
> > strengths/ weaknesses of the North and South and the states that were part
> > of both sides, oh, probably ten times now. The lower kids can't even
> label
> > a map of the US correctly-- they put North Carolina (my home state) where
> > Tennessee is, South Carolina NORTH of NC, and otherwise leave everything
> > blank but Texas and Florida, and sometimes Maine. The lower kids OUGHT to
> > learn where states are in relation to each other-- I think that's a useful
> > bit of knowledge that they should possess. But I could spend the next
> three
> > days going over it while the AIG kids pull their hair out from
> frustration.
> >
> > I DO believe that all kids can achieve, but in reality not everyone
> achieves
> > at the same pace at the same stage of development. Grouping kids can be a
> > bad thing-- I'll grant you that: elitism and stereotypes don't help
> anyone.
> > But no one's needs are met when they are all lumped together.
> >
> > Teresa, having a feeling she may be very unpopular after this post
> > West Middle School
> > Montgomery County, NC
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Ted Nellen 8-) tnellen@tnellen.com
_o \o_ __| \ / |__ o _ o/ \o/
__|- __/ \__/o \o | o/ o/__ /\ /| |
> > / \ ( \ /o\ / ) | (\ / | < \ / \
One must learn by doing the thing. For though you think you know
it, you have no certainty until you try.
~ Sophocles ~ (BC 495-406, Greek Tragic Poet)
http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/
http://www.tnellen.com/ted/
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From: tnellen@iris.host4u.net
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:00:40 -0500 (CDT)
To: ncte-talk@serv1.ncte.org
Subject: [talk-kitchen] Re: [ncte-talk] Honors Students
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